Rossi: Maximum Heat: 600 C on Secondary Circuit, ROI Less than 2 Years

Here are a couple of new pieces of information about the E-Cat QX plants from Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today.

February 16, 2018 at 12:53 AM
Dr Andrea Rossi,
Which is the max temperature you can reach on a secondary circuit?

Andrea Rossi
February 16, 2018 at 7:17 AM
600 C degrees.
Warm Regards,

February 15, 2018 at 5:06 PM
Dr Andrea Rossi,
How much long you think will be the payback period of an indistrial Ecat?

Andrea Rossi
February 16, 2018 at 7:18 AM
less than 2 years.
Warm Regards,

I take temperature on the secondary circuit to mean the temperature on the other side of the heat exchanger from the E-Cat QX reactors themselves, which Rossi has said reach 2600 C. 600 C would be enough heat to be able to provide steam heat at temperatures for the most efficient electricity generation. The production of supercritical steam, where water instantly becomes steam (thus no boiling occurs) requires 570 C.

A payback period of less than two years for an e-cat plant would seem to be an attractive investment option for companies. Andrea Rossi has stated that the cost of a 1 MW plant would be ‘much less’ than the $1.5 million he had priced the early shipping container E-Cat plants at — but so far he has declined to give any specific estimate of cost. Rossi has said that the costs for refueling the E-Cats once per year will be insignificant — so providing the plants work, this could lead to massive savings in future fuel costs for E-Cat users.

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Rossi: “Progressing at Exponential Speed These Days”

Five days ago Andrea Rossi was asked on the Journal of Nuclear Physics what chances he gave for getting the industrial E-Cats on the market in 2018, and his reply was “70 %”. Just yesterday when asked the same question he stated: “Today I think between 80 and 90%.”

I asked him what had changed his level of confidence and he replied:

Andrea Rossi
February 15, 2018 at 8:02 AM
Frank Acland:
I am progressing at an exponential speed in these days, because issues that needed months to be resolved a couple of months ago now need less time. I give you a model from Dan Brown: to pass from the discovery of fire to the invention of wheel has taken millions years, but to pass from the invention of the wheel to the invention of an internal combustion engine it has taken thousands of years, and so on.
Obviously I can be wrong and find some unforeseen obstacle, by I am optimist: if you are not an optimist guy, you cannot be either an inventor or an enterpreneur, while I am both.
Warm Regards,

It does sound like the really hard work of inventing, testing and all the other R&D necessary for building an acceptable prototype (for the first product) has been accomplished, and now the focus is on getting ready for production.

Also, Rossi wrote this yesterday when asked where he expected the presentation of the first industrial E-Cat product would take place:

Andrea Rossi
February 14, 2018 at 7:17 PM
As things have developed now, I think the first presentation of the product will be made in the USA.
Warm Regards,

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Further Examination of the LION 2 Reactor (MFMP Video)

Bob Greenyer has posted a new video where he cracks open the alumina foam housing from the Looking for Heat Model T test bed in which part of the LION 2 reactor has been stuck (LION had sent it to Bob), and carries out a post-mortem.

In the first part of the video Bob shows that some loose material that comes out of the reactor hole, and he notes that there is iron in the Kanthal wire that was used as a heating element in the Model T. He then goes on the crack open the foam to get a look at the remainder of the LION 2 reactor.

What he reveals is something that looks very different to the control tubes that Alan Smith has been testing on this week. Here are a couple of screenshots of one side of the reactor remains where it looks like the alumina foam has melted onto the reactor:

This shows the other side where the melting has not occurred:

According to this companies website, the melting point of foamed alumina oxide is 2,072° C (3,762° F). Remember that LION himself, who did this test, stated that this reactor continued to self-sustain at temperatures in the region of 1000 C for about 2 days with the power turned off. It will be interesting to see how Alan Smith’s testing of a fueled reactor goes.

The full video of Bob’s excavation is below.

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Cold Fusion Now! podcast with Jean-Paul Biberian

University of Marseille Professor of Physics Dr. Jean-Paul Biberian is the Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Condensed Matter Nuclear Science and author of Fusion in All Its Forms: Cold Fusion, ITER, Alchemy, Biological Transmutations with Foreword by Stanley Pons. He began researching cold fusion in 1993 until he retired to work in his own private …

Continue reading "Cold Fusion Now! podcast with Jean-Paul Biberian"

Nuclear Heating: Chinese Project Plans District Heating with Low Temperature Nuclear Reactions (Fission)

The World Nuclear News website is reporting about plans in China to begin a district heating system using nuclear fission reactions to supply the low-temperature heat suitable for heating residential and commercial buildings during winter months. The project is to be carried out by China General Nuclear (CGN) and Tsinghua University. CGN states that based on earlier testing the NHR200-II low-temperature nuclear plant design to be used is mature, safe and reliable.

From the article:

The Chinese government has made clean-energy heating a priority, CGN noted. Last year, the authorities issued guidance on clean heating in winter in northern China. The NEA released a five-year plan – covering 2017-2021 – highlighting the innovation of clean heating technology and consideration of nuclear heating.

CGN Chairman He Yu said: “As China’s first trial use of nuclear power to generate over 100 MW of heating energy, the project will serve as a model for clean-energy heating and is considered an ideal replacement for coal-burning. It will help reduce coal consumption, curbing pollution and promoting cleaner heating in North China.”

Andrea Rossi has stated that the E-Cat would be suitable to provide heating for the kinds of district heat heating that this Chinese project is planning for, but of course the LENR reaction is very different from conventional fission. Without the need for extensive safety measures required by nuclear fission plants, the E-Cat might turn out to be a more suitable candidate to provide ‘nuclear heating’.

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Self-looped E-Cat Plant ‘Theoretically Possible, but Economically Useless” – For Now.

Over the years many people have suggested that if the E-Cat Works as Andrea Rossi claims, and has a high enough COP, it should be relatively straightforward to use a portion of the energy produced by the E-Cat to generate the electricity needed to power itself — thus having a self-looped plant, without the need for any external electrical supply.

Andrea Rossi in the past has stated that this would not be feasible for “safety reasons”, without specifying exactly what those reasons were. I put a question on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about this issue in relation to the E-Cat QX, and this was Rossi’s reply:

Andrea Rossi
February 12, 2018 at 1:22 PM
Frank Acland:
To make electricity we need the Carnot Cycle, then we can use the electricity to run the Ecat. Theoretically possible, but economically useless and complicated, so far.
What counts is the COP, with or without longer or shorted SSM. In future, after the launch of the product, we will spend time on this possibility, but I think in the short term our core business will remain to make heat, with which our Customers will make what they need.
Warm Regards,

Rossi is clearly focused on his first product which will be a heater, but if the plant works well and the COP is high enough, it won’t be long before people start using them to generate electricity. At that point I think it will be only a matter of time before Rossi, or one of his customers decides to work on closing the loop as it’s such an obvious thing to do. Rossi is not counting it out, but I think given his current ‘race against time’ to get production started this year, generation of electricity with all its implications is a level of complexity that he currently doesn’t need to deal with.

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Replication by Stepanov and Pancelug: “Reality of Excessive Heat Generation in Ni + LiAlH4- system”

A new issue of the Russian “Journal of Unconventional Science” has been published which is dedicated to the topic of LENR. It can be accessed here:

Along with some theoretical articles, there are two experimental reports.

Of particular interest to people who are interested in E-Cat-type replication is the article “Experimental studies of excess heat release in a Ni + LiAlH4 system” by I.N. Stepanov and V.A. Pancelug.

Of course the text is all in Russian, but here is an English translation (via Google) of the summary:

We investigated several variants of the reactor design, with the help of which the efficiency of a heat generator based on the reaction Ni + LiAlH4 was demonstrated. The conducted studies showed that the thermal yield of this reaction exceeds the power supplied to the heat generator by 10-50% and is in absolute terms 4.3 MJ (1.2 kWh). On the average, as follows from the estimates given in Fig. 4 and Fig. 7, a thermal cell containing 1.5 g of fuel mixture can produce 50-100 Volts of excess capacity (in excess of the power consumed from the grid). The results obtained so far, allow us to state the reality of excessive heat generation in Ni + LiAlH4- system. A quantitative evaluation of the characteristic value of this heat release and the study of its specific mechanisms require, in our opinion, further continuation of the currently ongoing experiments.

The complete article can be read (in Russian) here:

This result is in line with a number of other replication efforts reported over the years, using the ingredients mentioned in Rossi’s Fluid Heater patent, in which the COP is between 1 and 2.

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Growing the Doped Diamond Whiskers of Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat

The following post has been submitted by “the Director”

(Please check out my blog for a more in-depth and complete version of this article at my blog the Electron Clusters Project: Andrea Rossi’s E-Cat Effect: A Process Using Carbon, Low Work Function Dopants, and Atomic Hydrogen for “Negative Electron Affinity” Diamond Synthesis.)

I don’t believe that Andrea Rossi has a single, sole, solitary catalyst and nor does the even more enigmatic me356. The complete picture, only now coming into focus, is much more interesting. In short, I propose that inside these LENR reactors a complex, dynamic interaction between atomic hydrogen, various forms of carbon, and additional doping elements (namely lithium among others) combine on a heated nickel surface to produce diamond structures. With an ultra low work function and Negative Electron Affinity, these diamonds produce negative hydrogen ions (protons with addition electrons) and various forms of Exotic Vacuum Objects (EVOs) or “strange radiation.” The final result is the triggering of cold fusion and excess heat.

Let’s start with basics. Me356 claimed to have used Ni 200 alloy nickel vaping wire which contains carbon and is documented to precipitate graphite. In addition to the fact that he may have stumbled onto the E-Cat effect after exposing nickel to hydrocarbons from coal gas, Andrea Rossi has typically used “carbonyl nickel” powder that contains carbon residue from the manufacturing process. What’s interesting is that for CVD diamond synthesis, nickel is the best out of a very short list of elements that can function as suitable substrates: with copper perhaps coming in second. The next ingredient needed is atomic hydrogen – which we know has been a critical component in every E-Cat reactor since this saga began. Now is when the action starts!

When atomic hydrogen plasma comes into contact with a nickel surface, protons impact the surface, instantly burrow into the lattice, and produce a shallow film of nickel hydride. Due to the melting temperature of nickel hydride being approximately 1150C (much lower than around 1450C for pure nickel) this surface layer can exist as a liquid. This nickel hydride and the showers of protons impact any carbon present. Regardless if the carbon has been precipitated from the nickel, deposited from a percent or two of hydrocarbon (methane or carbon monoxide) added to the plasma, or seeded with nano-diamond powder, the atomic hydrogen starts to break apart the graphite (sp2) bonds and convert them into diamond (sp3) bonds. The high percentage of atomic hydrogen along with the nickel hydride layer make sure that diamond structures are preferentially formed, rather than graphite.

The diamond structures that result can take many geometric forms, sometimes even spikes or needle like “whiskers” that can enhance electric fields. Importantly, due to the hydrogen present, they can be “doped” in such a way so their work function has been lowered and they posses a NEA or “negative electron affinity.” Additional elements added to the plasma such as lithium can also act as dopants: sometimes lowering the work function even further. During high temperature operation, the bonds of some number of the atoms doping the diamond surface can be broken. Interestingly, the presence of high temperature lithium vapor, hydrogen gas, and especially a continual plasma of atomic hydrogen or lithium can keep these emitter structures continually regenerated — adding atoms and molecules back to the surface.

The electrons, negative hydrogen ions (likely a class of EVOs in and of themselves), strange radiation, and other EVOs emitted by these diamond structures are what I think trigger LENR. The heat, light, radiation, and cycles of fracto-emission (EVOs generated when the embrittled nickel hydride surface fractures) keep the interior temperature high which sustains the operation of these emitters and keep their surfaces regenerated. This is a lively and constantly ongoing process!

Looking at the operation of the E-Cat and other LENR systems from this perspective offers many paths forward for replicators. The practical side of cold fusion no longer seems so mysterious. By utilizing atomic hydrogen sources (from direct current glow discharge, corona discharge, radio frequency generators, microwave sources, hot tungsten filaments, etc) and various sources of carbon along with nickel, we can produce ultra-low work function electron emitters – likely what Rossi originally described as his ever so critical tubercules or tubercles.

For more information including other useful dopants, carbon allotropes, and some practical considerations, please check out the full version of this article.

Control Test of LION Reactor by Alan Smith

Alan Smith of Looking For Heat has started a test using a LFH Model T reactor in which he is doing a ‘control’ experiment of the LION reactor. This means that he is using non-fueled tubes of the same type as LION, and seeing how they behave when heated. This will allow us to see how they compare to the LION reactors which were fueled with diamonds mounted on a nickel substrate, and soaked in deuterium for 30 days. I have not seen precise data on the runs he did with LION 1 and LION 2 so I am not exactly sure how closely Alan’s heating of his tubes compares with LION’s but LION did use a LHF Model T test bed also.

Here are some of Alan’s comments here regarding his test, along with an image he has shared.

“Just looked at my LION control. 18 hours at around 1000C so far, and still only a few degrees higher in the wire-wrapped tube port, which I am pretty sure is due to slightly lower circulation of atmosphereic convection currents in the slightly more confined space around it.”

“There is one development however, in that the wire-wrapped tube appears to have welded itself to the quartz liner- possibly due to slow migration of copper/copper oxide into the quartz- or perhaps the other way around.”

“This experiment does not require calorimetry to any order of precision. The reactor itself has been calibrated to an accuracy of 1C difference between ports at 1000C. The current discrepancy is of the order of 8C, which represents a percentage difference of 0.8, and is hardly significant.”

“If this was an experiment requiring accurate calorimetry then both control and test tubes would be wrapped in the same amount of Cu Wire. The Model T is a simple system, but incredibly well characterised, and has never been known to yield significant or ‘non-obvious’ errors in any of several hundred experiments performed in my own laboratory and in those of 2 scientific institutions who have found it very useful as a ‘petri dish’ for testing various fuel mixes.”

More information and images from Alan are available at LENR Forum here.

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Rossi: “In Race against Time” to get E-Cat Production Underway

Here are some more questions that I asked Andrea Rossi on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, along with his responses. Question #1 refers to a comment he made yesterday in which he affirmed that they had determined exactly what the robots he plans to use in E-Cat QX production will have to do.

Frank Acland
February 6, 2018 at 7:44 PM
Dear Andrea,

1. If you have defined exactly what the robots will have to do, are there robots already available that can do the job, or do custom robots need to be made?

2. Has your workforce increased in number since the beginning of 2018?

3. Has your prototype been performing in a satisfactory way?

4. How would you describe the mood of your team these days?

Andrea Rossi
February 6, 2018 at 9:54 PM
Frank Acland:
1- the software is custom, the robots are off the shelf
2- yes
3- yes
4- under strong pressure, because I am very nervous to succeed to sell the industrial plants within 2018. We re all under strong pressure, because every day that passes is a day less at our disposal. Time is not reversible, unfortunately. This is a race against time and relax is not an option
Warm Regards,

So it seems that a serious effort continues to get the production underway in 2018. We know that Andrea is a driven man when it comes to the E-Cat, and I can imagine that he makes sure that the people working on his team are well aware of his goals, so it’s probably a high pressure environment at Leonardo HQ.

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