Leonardo to Index Price of E-Cat Heat to Maintain 20% Discount to Current Fuels

Today on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, Andrea Rossi revealed a pricing strategy for heat sold to customers from E-Cat plants. He was asked by Robert Dorr to clarify what the discount of E-Cat-produced heat for customers would be compared to the current fuel sources they are using.

Here is Rossi’s response:

Andrea Rossi
August 14, 2018 at 5:34 AM
Robert Dorr:
If our Customers now are spending 100, with the Ecat plants they will spend 80 and the price will be indexed with the variation of the market price, to maintain the 20% of earning for the Customer.
Warm Regards,

I followed up with a couple of questions of my own just for clarification:

Frank Acland
August 14, 2018 at 6:57 AM
Dear Andrea,
When you say that the cost of E-Cat heat will be “indexed with the variation of the market price”, do you mean:
1. That it will always be 20 per cent less expensive than whatever the customer would normally use (e.g. natural gas)?
2. That if the price of (for example) natural gas rises, the cost of E-Cat heat will also rise?

Andrea Rossi
August 14, 2018 at 8:58 AM
Frank Acland:
1- yes
2- no
Warm Regards,

So it seems that Leonardo’s plan is to make sure that E-Cat-provided heat is always cheaper than alternative sources. From Rossi’s answer to my second question, it would appear that the indexing does follow price increases in competing fuels, just price decreases. Whether a 20 per cent discount will be attractive enough to entice customers to contract with Leonardo remains to be seen (assuming the plants work as described).

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Rossi: Building 40 MW E-Cat Plant for Customer

Andrea Rossi has been posting recently about a contract Leonardo Corporation has made with a customer (unidentified) for a 40 MW E-Cat installation.

Rossi states that the plant is already under construction, although he says that they have not yet decided whether it will be using SK or QX reactors.  He says they are still testing the SK 10 kW version and will have to make a decision in the near future whether it is ready for production.

According to Rossi, the SK and QX reactors are the same size, so presumably they can start building the plants before they make the final decision of which type to go with. However, if they go with the QX reactors (1 kW each), they will need 10 times the number compared to the SK. When asked about the size of this plant he replied:

Andrea Rossi
August 9, 2018 at 6:28 AM
Assuming we use the SK 10,
Reactors plus heat exchanger 4 cubic meters, plus the control systems and the steam circuits.
Warm Regards

So if the QX is used, then it will be 40 cubic meters in size which will be considerably larger, so I am sure that Rossi hopes that the SK is ready.

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Rossi: Ex-Military Specialists Working on Securing E-Cat Control System

Andre Rossi wrote yesterday on the Journal of Nuclear Physics that Leonardo Corporation has set up a remote control system that they “deem almost impossible to be cracked.” He said that the remote control monitoring system for all the world will from a location in Miami, Florida:

Andrea Rossi
August 4, 2018 at 8:28 AM
Gerard McEk:
What we are proposing, as I said, is exclusively the installation of our Ecats in the factories of our Clients to sell the heat, controlling the plants in remote from our headquarter in Miami, wherever the plants might be in the world. We will maintain full property and control of the plant, while our Clients will save money paying our Joules much less that the normal market price. This will remain our policy for a long time, to maintain full control of our IP. We already have set up a remote control system that we deem almost impossible to be cracked.
Warm Regards,

I asked Rossi if the remote control system was being tested out, and if so, how it was working. He replied:

Andrea Rossi
August 5, 2018 at 3:45 AM
Frank Acland:
We are making tests and we are satisfied of them so far. Obviously the difficult part is not to make a remote control, as modulated as it might be, but to make it impossible to be hacked. We are being helped also by retired military specialists of the field.
Warm Regards,

If the remote control system works as described, one vulnerability will be that E-Cat plants worldwide are going to be dependent on a reliable internet connection between themselves and Miami. There are many reasons why internet connections can fail — e.g. equipment failure, to natural or man-made disasters, to government actions — and of course there are places in the world where reliable internet is just not available.

Rossi has made it clear IP protection is paramount, and he is unlikely to be deterred from this business plan. Above he says this policy will be in force for ‘a long time’. If you are a business that is willing to contract with Leonardo to purchase E-Cat heat, you will have to have a standby backup source of heat ready to deploy in cases when the internet signal goes down.

Whether the IP will be well-protected with this system is another issue. Rossi states he thinks that it will be ‘almost’ impossible to hack, but also says they are still working with ex-military experts on what he calls a ‘difficult’ issue, so they cannot be totally confident that they have safeguarded their IP with this measure.

I expect they will try as hard as they can to become hack-proof, and remain so, but they must realize that if E-Cat technology is as revolutionary as Rossi maintains, Leonardo will become a huge target for people trying to find out how they do what they do.

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Which Businesses Will Sign Up to Try the E-Cat?

A couple of posts by readers on this thread caught my attention as they bring up a subject that I’ve thought about quite a bit. Assuming the E-Cat and the remote control system both work as described by Andrea Rossi, what is the likelihood of industrial companies signing up to use it?

Vinney wrote this:

Rossi has been very clever in his marketing plans, the distribution costs are bourne by Leonardo Corporation, so to the customer the adoption costs are the same whether you are in America or Europe, and thus practically nil.

There are virtually no reasons not to try Rossi’s E-cat in some portion of your manufacturing enterprise.

The maintenance costs are also nil to the customer.

The cost of heat (like the cost of power) are 100% deductible as a business expense.

This is an extremely difficult model to compete against.

Causal observer replied with this:

Reasons why people might not give the E-Cat a try:
> might fail, causing a lot of wasted time
> people might cast aspersions
> board members own carbon energy stock
> cost of hookup in parallel with existing systems (who pays?)
> general overhead cost of doing the contract and managing the customer part of the install
> too busy to stop and talk about it
> don’t want to be laughed at if it fails
> subordinate managers and employees express concerns about radiation
> someone starts a negative PR campaign about Rossi (although they’d better be ready to receive letters from Rossi’s lawyers on that!)
> general resistance to change

The trick in sales is not to focus on your product’s virtues, but to think about the customers’ resistance.

My guess is that Rossi already his early customers lined up via C-level contacts who have already brushed all of the above considerations aside. Class chasm problem, though.

I think both posters have valid points. On the face of it, signing on for cheaper, cleaner energy without any upfront investment would seem like a no-brainer. But there is a tension between both embracing and rejecting it which I think rests upon whether you are willing to take a chance on trying out a brand new, as-yet unaccepted technology, or if you are afraid of being wrong.

I think many decision makers in business worry about looking foolish and running the risk of being ridiculed if things go wrong. In business, many executives worry about investors/partners/press/public think. If you make a big misstep, you could be fired, if you’re a public company you company could lose market value on the stock market, you could be the laughing stock of the business or scientific press, you could be trashed on social media.

Then there are those who are willing to take a risk, to try something news in order to be on the cutting edge. With the E-Cat, as Vinney writes, Leonardo’s business model puts all the financial risk on Leonardo and not on the customer, so if the E-Cat doesn’t work, you haven’t lost out financially. If it works, you stand to gain a lot in saved energy costs.

Keeping your involvement with Leonardo secret makes sense for early adopters. If you try it and it doesn’t work, then few people will know about it, and you save face. If you try it and it does work, then you save money and become more competitive without your competitors figuring out how you are able to do so.

For Rossi and Leonardo, the best situation to be in is to have satisfied customers with good reputations publicly stating they are using the E-Cat with good results. That is the best form of advertisingm and I think Leonardo might be able to persuade some early adopters to go public if they offer the reduced costs of energy in return for them publicizing their use of the E-Cat

I think the hardest lifting will be at the beginning. If the E-Cat plants work well, and satisfied customers start talking, it will become less risky for people to give Leonardo a chance.

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Rossi Expects E-Cat Production Lines to be Operating by End of November

As we approach the end of summer, Andrea Rossi’s stated goal of having a public presentation of the E-Cat by January of next year is just a few months away. Many E-Cat followers, including myself, wonder if he can actually get a working product to market in such a short period of time.

In a recent comment, when asked when he expected the first E-Cat products to be delivered to customers, Andrea Rossi stated “Within December, I think”.

I followed up with a few questions:

Frank Acland
July 29, 2018 at 11:06 PM
Dear Andrea,

Your reply to Noble Grabow you said you think that you will deliver your first E-Cat products to customers in December.

1. About how many different customers will take delivery of your first batch of E-Cats?
2. Will the first products delivered be E-Cat QX’s
3. Are your first customers all in the USA?
4. Have you finalized the manufacturing system for the first products?
5. Does this mean you expect your production lines will be in operation by the end of November?

Andrea Rossi
July 30, 2018 at 1:09 AM
Frank Acland:
1- Deals are on course, premature to answer
2- So far the answer is yes
3- No
4- To be completed
5- Yes
Thank you for your attention to our work,
Warm Regards,

There still seems to be a great deal to be done in a short time, and I think we should not be surprised if the projected timeline changes. Having said that, Andrea Rossi has proved to be a driven man, a very hard worker with strong determination and persistence, and I am sure he is doing all in his power to see this project to its completion, and I think he will be trying his very best to get his products into the marketplace as soon as possible.

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Rossi: Maximum Temperature from the E-Cat SK is 20 000°C

I had not seen any report from Andrea Rossi until now about the temperatures that he is achieving with the E-Cat SK.

Here is a Q&A from the Journal of Nuclear Physics today:

E. Hergen
July 17, 2018 at 8:11 AM
Dear Mr. Rossi,

in a former reply you said you have reached a power density with the ecat SK you have never reached before.

What was the highest temperature you reached with the ecat SK ever, and what is the maximum temperature you can operate the ecat SK without damaging the module?

I hope you give us notice when you for the first time will produce electricity. This will be a monumental event.

Andrea Rossi
July 17, 2018 at 11:58 AM
The max T we reach is around 20 000 °C.
The production of electricity by means of heat is an old and consolidated technology. The difficult is to make the first source of energy, the eventual conversion of it in other forms is not difficult, albeit some efficiency has to be lost.
Warm Regards,

Temperatures of that magnitude are suitable for pretty much any purpose on can think of. Rossi has mentioned that a major challenge has been to keep the reactor cool enough to avoid a meltdown. He has said that the turbine configuration has provided help with cooling, but he has emphasized that it is not yet ready for commercialization. From Rossi’s reply it sounds like they have not yet generated electricity using the turbine, but that should be a trivial task compared to getting the E-Cat to run the turbine in a reliable way.

Ionizing Radiation from E-Cats beyond Background has ‘Never’ Been Measured

Here’s an interesting exchange on the Journal of Nuclear Physics today regarding the issue of whether the E-Cat produces ionizing radiation.

Prof July 4, 2018 at 7:30 PM
Dr Andrea Rossi

There is a buzz in the internet that your Ecat SK could have issues related to the radiations it could emit.
Are you worried of this issue? Could your presentaton of the industrialized Ecat SK be jeopardized by it?



Andrea Rossi July 4, 2018 at 9:20 PM
We constantly measure all the radiations emitted by the Ecat. The emissions have also been thoroughly measured by the specialized officers of the Healthcare Office of Florida, that has a team of specialized agents for this specific purpose, as well as from Physics Professors specialized in such measurement and NEVER has been measured an excess of ionizing radiations beyond the background. This also is an indirect confirmation of the theoretical intuition Gullstrom and I are studying upon ( Carl-Oscar Gullstrom, nuclear physic from the University of Uppsala- you can find his lecture on Youtube whose link is also in our website http://www.ecat.com, or Google ” Youtube video Carl Oscar Gullstrom theoretical lecture of Ecat presentation Stockholm November 24 2017 ”

Warm Regards,

In some of the public tests that have taken place over the years, there have been radiation measurements taken close to the E-Cats, and no radiation beyond background has been reported. This comment is the first time that I can recall Andrea Rossi stating that officers from the Healthcare Office of Florida have measured radiation from the E-Cat. It would be interesting to read a report from those tests.

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Brillouin Energy Closes Second Paid Commercial License Within The Asia-Pacific Region (Brillouin Energy Press Releas)

The following is a press release from Brillouin Energy. Original document is available here: http://brillouinenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Brillouin-Press-Release-Second-Commercial-License-7-2-18-Final.pdf (Thanks to Sam for the heads up)


CECR technology rights sold to a leading industrial group

BERKELEY, CA, July 2, 2018 – Brillouin Energy Corp. (http://brillouinenergy.com), a leading company in the low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) field, announced that it has secured its second paid commercial license of its CECR technologies. The license was sold to a leading industrial group within the Asia-Pacific region. This latest achievement marks another significant step in the company’s mission to create ultra-clean, low-cost, renewable energy products that are capable of producing commercially useful therma lenergy (heat).

“This announcement is an important milestone in our quest to deliver world-changing ultra-clean, low-cost renewable energy technologies”, said company CEO, Robert W. George. “This latest accomplishment further validates the commercial potential of the company’s underlying CECR technologies.”

The new license agreement pays a combination of up front fees plus various royalty streams over time. Brillouin will use the immediate revenue to continue development of its green energy solutions that original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) can design into highly energy efficient products. This in turn brings the company closer to the reality of commercial LENR power.

For more information about Technology Licensing or OEM Partnerships with Brillouin Energy Corp., please see http://brillouinenergy.com/opportunity/technology-licensing.

For further information about this News Release, please contact: Grant Draper Grant@CapstreamX.com +1-415-745-0254

About Brillouin Energy Corp.:

Brillouin Energy is a clean-technology company based in Berkeley California USA, which is developing an ultra-clean, low-cost, renewable energy technology that is capable of producing commercially useful thermal energy from LENR. Brillouin’s LENR technology includes a proprietary method known as CECR, which electrically stimulates nickel metal conductors using its Q-Pulse™ control system. The stimulation process produces LENR reactions, which generates heat. The potential cost of the system inputs relative to the heat outputs is very low. Other than the heat output, there are no (zero) toxic or CO2 byproduct emissions of any kind.

For further information about Brillouin Energy Corp., please contact:David Firshein, CFO dnf@brillouinenergy.com +1-415-419-6429

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Rossi: Dealing with the ‘Highest Echelons in the Industrial World’

Andrea Rossi was asked on the Journal of Nuclear Physics yesterday about who he has been talking to since he announced that Leonardo was ready to make deals to sell heat.

Wilber Averhart
June 28, 2018 at 10:27 AM
Dear Andrea,
I suppose you are already in advanced status with the development of agreements to supply heat, after your announcement that the deals are open. Curiosity: which is the average dimensions of the companies you are mainly engaged with?

Andrea Rossi
June 28, 2018 at 6:08 PM
Wilber Averhart:
At the moment we are dealing only with the highest echelons of the industrial world.
Warm Regards,

As I wrote yesterday regarding the need for commercial LENR in order for it to be taken seriously, if Rossi really has what he says he has, then the “highest echelons” of industry are naturally going to be very interested in what he has, because the E-Cat represents a real revolution in energy production and an opportunity for cost savings and cleaner energy that has not been available previously.

If the E-Cat is for real, and really is ready for commercialization, potential customers are going to be looking very carefully at whether they should adopt it, since the potential savings offer companies such a competitive advantage — and conversely, a competitive disadvantage if they don’t adopt it, and their competitors do.

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Rossi: “Now Retrofitting” A Gas Turbine with the E-Cat SK

From comments on the Journal of Nuclear Physics, and in my recent interview with Andrea Rossi, it is clear that in recent weeks he has turned his attention from the E-Cat QX to the E-Cat SK.

Although he hasn’t gone into a great deal of detail, he has been talking about using the 100 kW E-Cat SK to drive what he is calling a “modified gas engine” which can generate electricity.

Here is question and answer with Iggy Dalrymple from the Journal of Nuclear Physics on the topic:

Iggy Dalrymple
June 23, 2018 at 2:05 PM
Dear Dr Rossi,
As you know, large electrical utility companies use gas turbines for their peak load time of the day or during extreme temperature weather. They use hydro, nuclear, or coal for their base load.

Once you have perfected the mating of your SK with a gas turbine, do you anticipate:
1- Retrofitting the SK to existing utility owned gas turbines?
2- Or must the turbines be custom built to accommodate the SK?

Andrea Rossi
June 23, 2018 at 5:28 PM
Iggy Dalrymple:
Now we are retrofitting.
Warm Regards

In an earlier Q&A with Raffaele Bongo Rossi indicated that they were having success with this approach.

Raffaele Bongo
June 22, 2018 at 3:22 PM
Hello A. Rossi

The coupling of a reactor with a turbine seems very promising for the electric propulsion of land vehicles
Can you tell us how many Quark SK 100s have you installed in this reactor that you are testing and have you ever reached a COP greater than 1?
Thank you for your answers
All my support for your team
Best regards

Andrea Rossi
June 22, 2018 at 4:27 PM
Raffaele Bongo:
We have installed one reactor and the COP has been >1.
Warm Regards,

So as usual, Andrea Rossi is not content to rest on his earlier technological achievements. He says he has developed the QX to a point where he thinks it is ready for manufacturing, he has another avenue to pursue. In another question on the JONP, I asked him if he was satisfied with the control he has over the SK so far he answered, “yes: the next week we will make another crucial test.”

It will be interesting to find out more about that test and how it went.

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