Better Zurich eCat Video

If, like me, you struggled to hear the Zurich live feed over the weekend, you will thank Sterling Allan for the following videos. There are two but I will only embed one in fairness to Sterling and to encourage you to visit his site. Even though I watched the whole thing on both days, I found the quality of this version outshines that of the live stream and I caught some interesting detail here. It struck me how often Rossi mentioned that the hotcat tests are ongoing and unproven as yet. It may be projection on my part but, did he have something on his mind at the time in this regard? When asked why Magnus Holmes was not present, Rossi said that he was otherwise busy but was there in spirit (or words to that effect).

Some of the highlights are as follows. Please note that I often paraphrase and be warned that my interpretation may be wrong. If something is important to you, check for yourself (and correct me in comments if required). Lengthy as it is, I advise you to watch the complete thing if you have the time and inclination. At the end, Sterling does a paparazzi stalk on Rossi. This was entertaining and led to a surprise answer right at the end as the Italian was getting into his taxi (1.21.00).

Q from audience members and A from Rossi.

Q – Would AR please run a workshop to allow us to run the 10KW eCat for at least 10 days to help us convince customers and investors?

A – Not 10 days but we have already reports for three months and six months which we will release soon.

Q – What is the ratio of Ni to Cu conversion?

A – Although we get this happening we are no longer certain it is the main process but a side effect of the 10-100KeV Gammas that are emitted.

Q (40mins) – Is there any … for you to go ahead?

A – I am not strong and not intelligent – it is all down to God

Q (42.15) – Why is Magnus Holmes not here?

A – He had some important meetings in Stockholm and excuses himself. All his content was in my presentation. I am sure his heart was here.

Q (43.45) – When will 1MW certifications be granted?

A – Already have safety certs for industrial plants but not domestic. Industry is easier because they have procedures etc to ensure proper use and conformation to liabilities. But for domestic… someone drunk in house can cause problems… Will be long time with good stats in industry before get safety certs for domestic.

Q – (46.05) When gas eCat safety certs

A – It should be no problem…

Q – (49.00) Any future problem with nuclear authorities regarding safety certs?

A – No. We got the safety cert because we could give guarantees that we do not use radioactive materials, produce radiative materials and no radiation is emitted outside the device during operation. Yes, we produce radiations to make heat but also microwave ovens do this. Laws already exist for their regulation and the microwave radiations are in the same range as ours. .. blah, blah, phones etc. Cert says we do not use radioactive materials or produce then…etc. Therefore they enter into the same category as the devices in your house, your pocket etc… think television – to have command of television [remote].

Q – (52.30) Where has certification taken place. Is it in Europe and is it CE or E Cert?

A –  Swiss company, SGS.  Valid for all Europe. Allows us to put CE mark on our industrial products.  This is a safety certification.  It is a voluntary certification. The law does not impose a safety certification.  By European laws you can also take the safety liabilities by yourself. You are not bound by law to make a safety cert by the likes of SGS or UL etc. You can put the CE mark by yourself. But doing it this way it is difficult to get authorization. Industrial plants must also get permissions from local authorities. If you want you can go to an Internationally recognized cert company and request a safety cert from them on a voluntary basis. We changed the design to conform to their suggestions. We learned from them. They made a myriad of modifications. We had to also take our liabilities because they say: “I certify you, if what you say is true.”  “I certify you if you fix what we say.” “If you say something that is not true and make something different from what I say, then… well.” We also changed the instruction manual on their advice. They made it in our favour.

Q (49.05) Is the 1MW plant already running some months?

A 1MW is running very well in a military concern. A civil plant we are ready to deliver has been used just to check it. Soon it will be delivered and after 2 or 3 months of consolidated operation it will be visitable.

Q (59) The COP seems low in HotCat…

A – The COP we quoted is a minimum after taking all the conservative calculations. We aim to have at least a 6 COP. The most important thing for the professors and the military engineer is not the COP but the position of the dot in the Ragon graph. Is it a nuclear effect? Can we rule out chemical? When we reach 1050 Celsius we will be able to operate in self-sustain for 50% of the time. (then talks about thermal camera etc in hotcat).

Q (1.21.00) What do you say to those who want to invest?

A – Don’t do it. We are  still developing the technology. We need to sell our 1MW plants and keep developing until ready. When our plants have been in operation for a long time that will be when to invest and not before.

Other video and more at PESN

 

[Note new post. Rossi gives his account of HotCat 'mismeasurement']

HotCat Fail For Hydrofusion – Updated

Important Update from Mats Lewan of Ny Teknik at end of this post.

Hydrofusion, the company behind Andrea Rossi’s official web site at ecat.com (and his N European rep) has issued a press release indicating that it cannot support Rossi’s claims for the HotCat. As I always caution against jumping to positive conclusions on flimsy evidence, it is also too early to tell how significant this announcement is. The wording is curious. Some commentators think the press release is framed to distance the company from the claims while one individual claims that a minor technical glitch (ac input)  lies at the root of the failure. Started by a small group of Swedish scientists, Hydrofusion is uniquely placed to make a call one way or the other. They fully understand the controversy behind these extraordinary claims and must know that such a statement will be pounced upon as tealeaves to be read.

Press release

Hydro Fusion witnessed a new independent test of the high temperature ECAT prototype reactor on September 6th in Bologna. Although no full report has yet been received, early indications are that the results of the July 16th/August 7th reports could not be reproduced.

Hydro Fusion cannot at this stage support any claims made, written or other, about the amount of excess heat generated by the new high temperature ECAT prototype.

The timing is curious. Hot on the heels of his Zurich appearance, AR was keen to yell the following:

  • Andrea Rossi

    Dear Brian:
    It is necessary that I repeat the following statement:
    THE HOT CAT ( REACTOR AT HIGH TEMPERATURE) HAS NOT BEEN YET VALIDATED, BECAUSE THE TESTS AND THE MEASUREMENTS HAVE STILL TO BE COMPLETED, AND TO COMPLETE THEM WILL BE NECESSARY AT LEAST 2-3 MORE MONTHS. I SAID THIS IN MY REPORT IN ZURICH AND I REPEAT THIS HERE.
    THE PROFESSORS AND ENGINEERS WHO ARE MAKING THESE TESTS ARE SPECIALISTS AND THEIR WORK IS COMPLEX. FOR EXAMPLE, THE MEASUREMENT OF THE ENERGY CONSUMED HAS TO BE MADE IN A WAY THAT IS BEYOND ANY REASONABLE DOUBT, SO NOW WE ARE REPEATING THE MEASUREMENTS USING A VARIAC TO AVOID THAT ENERGY USED BY THE RESISTANCES IS NOT MEASURED BY THE VOLTMETER AND THE AMPEROMETER ( THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE MANY ISSUES THAT ARE UNDER PROBE). THEREFORE IT IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG TO USE THE EXPRESSION ” THE ENGINEERS WHO PERFORMED THE PUBLISHED VALIDATION”, WHILE IS CORRECT THE EXPRESSION ” THE PROFESSORS AND THE ENGINEERS WHO ARE PERFORMING THE VALIDATION IN COURSE”.
    THE FINAL RESULTS WILL BE PUBLISHED IN A SCIENTIFIC MAGAZINE ONLY AFTER THE VALIDATION WILL HAVE BEEN COMPLETED.
    I AM RECEIVING FROM MANY PERSONS THIS QUESTION: ” IS IT POSSIBLE TO INVEST IN THE HOT CAT”? MY ANSWER IS: NO, IT IS NOT, BECAUSE THE REACTOR FOR HIGH TEMPERATURES IS NOT READY, IS NOT AS PRODUCT, IS A PROTOTYPE SUBJECT TO RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AND I WANT NOT TO PUT ANYBODY AT RISK BEFORE THE HOT CAT IS NOT YET A PRODUCT. OF COURSE I BELIEVE IN IT, I AM INVESTING MY MONEY IN IT, BUT I WANT NOT TO PLAY FOOT BALL WITH THE BONES OF THE OTHERS.
    Warm Regards,
    Andrea Rossi

To be fair, he did say at the conference that these were preliminary results that required confirmation (even as he said he believed them). If we step back, however, I could not help but wonder why the inventor would arrive at the first meeting of licensees who are reported to have paid real money to ride this train and talk about anything but tangible business stuff. When he announced his million-unit factory, Autumn 2012 was touted as a target for results. What those results were to be is a little vague but most observers expected to see some sort of proof that such a project really does exist. Of course, although there has been no official announcement that his ‘plans’ have changed, it is not too big a stretch to guess that a lack of certification might put a damper on things.

On that subject, I read many people talking about the claimed certification for the 1MW plant. When referring to the CE label, it is important to note than in Europe, this can be done in-house. As long as you have a device that you can categorize on the list of official product descriptors (tv, fridge, boiler etc) you can stick the CE label on your product self-confirming that it conforms to requirements. Voila! It is certified. Rossi confirmed this during his talk on Sunday. He added that the company also requested external certification but it was not clear exactly what that entailed. He did point out that since the eCat does not use radioactive materials, does not produce any and the device does not radiate outside its enclosure, it falls under normal rules for conventional non-nuclear machines (such as microwaves and phones).

It was a curious talk and curiouser still that the audience did not tackle him on details such as roll-out plans. I can only guess that back-channel communications are being used for such commercial-in-confidence talk but nothing would surprise me in this ever-surprising saga.

Hydrofusion’s speedy press release may or may not be a warning shot of things to come. Leaks are beginning to appear as more and more actors come into play and one man finds it impossible to cover all bases. As is my refrain, it is always possible that we are reading the signals incorrectly – but the battleship does appear to be listing. I genuinely hope that our worries are unfounded and reserve the final leap for the upcoming promise of UniBo’s validation. If he delivers, nothing else will matter and, if not, I predict an eCat exodus.

[As an aside, it appears that Domenico Fioravanti, the engineer Rossi claims acted as the secret customer's rep at the 1MW acceptance test last October (and was outed as the source of the original HotCat leak) is also one of the engineers behind the latest HotCat tests. This was spotted by a vigilant e-catworld reader: Screenshot of filepath and the original HotCat file. Note the name 'Cures' at bottom left on pages 9 and 12.]

 

UPDATE

With thanks to Mats Lewan at Ny Teknik, he has just informed me that the Swedes have halted their eCat investment after the failed tests. The article is in Swedish but Google translates it well:

[Note that the currency is Swedish Kronor]

‘Swedish investment in E-cat halted after test’

http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3535258.ece

Google Translate:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nyteknik.se%2Fnyheter%2Fenergi_miljo%2Fenergi%2Farticle3535258.ece

From that article:

Investor Group had instructed the SP Technical Research Institute of Sweden, to monitor the measurement, and the researchers who attended measuring an input electrical power that was two to three times higher than Rossi himself measured.

Despite this, Rossi presented a measurement report September 9 based on earlier tests where a lower input power and an energy surplus reported.

This is about as bad as it could get and may short circuit all other considerations if it is verified. The company stresses that the tests were for the HotCat but it is interesting to note that they are halting their investment [until further notice?]

[With thanks to Mats]

HotCat Report

After listening (with difficulty) to yesterday’s live-stream from Zurich, my first impression was that we had learned nothing new. On reading the subsequent report regarding the tests conducted on July and August at Bologna, I have to revise that assessment. I still feel that jubilation is premature – there are far too many questions and we need truly independent verification. This is not a criticism of those who conducted the tests but standard fare for such a contentious arena.

As I read the report, I could not help questioning the assumption that the inner surface irradiation would match the outer. It seemed obvious to me that it would not. Although this is addressed honestly in the errata and I am no expert, it is a perfect example of one issue that needs further investigation and an indicator pointing to potential unknown complexities that could smack us in the mouth later.

No-one should take these tests as proof. I would contend that the results are interesting and default to a respect for the engineers in question. I see no reason to doubt their integrity or expertise. We are all human, however, and it is easy to miss something that later becomes obvious.

I am encouraged that they released raw data and detailed information of the step-by-step process of the test. This will allow experts in the field to spot any problems and pin upper and lower bounds to the results. If these match the published results, we only have to worry about sleight-of-hand, mismeasurement or misplaced assumptions. That is a start.

That three engineers were willing to put their names on the line is encouraging but once more we need to remind ourselves to take one step at a time. Steorn did the same and as far as I can now tell, the company’s claims were nonsense.

I look forward to expert commentary on the results. If you do so here, we all appreciate your thoughts. I just ask you to leave the emotions at the door.

There are many things that puzzle me here (and raise red flags) and I have to admit that the gain in optimism (although real) is tempered by experience. I will look at these after today’s proceedings and following some time to reflect on them. For now, I welcome the report and hope we might get some more meat today.

The report

Raw Data

Errata

Today’s live stream…


Streaming video by Ustream

Zurich – Day 1

Unsurprisingly, there is a schism between those who started out sceptical of Rossi’s claims and those with a tendency to believe him when we look at the responses to today’s Zurich play. I was neither disappointed nor surprised. Andrea Rossi had prepared us to temper our expectations and then delivered as promised.

I really wish the hard sceptics would behave with a little humility (and some of the believers lay off their own abusive attacks) but I have to agree with them that nothing of substance was demonstrated. That does not mean that this is a scam but it does mean that anyone thinking of investing should jump every time they hear an alarm bell.

To be fair to the conference; they do not exist to satisfy our demands. This is business. We may be surprised tomorrow but I am not counting on it. For me; the break-point will be the delivery (or otherwise) of the University validation as promised by AR after they study the eCat in October. I will give them a short time for the report to be compiled and then make a decision. I am not as hopeful as I would like to be but this site will not exist on the day I hold no hope at all.

From my perspective and taking into account the poor audio and language difficulties, the main takeaway was that there was a lot of talk of basic stuff that is easily available to anyone on the Net and it seemed to be mostly filler. This gave me the impression that the licensees present may not know very much. That could be absolutely wrong and it is not meant as a criticism – it is merely my subjective response to what was presented.

To those among you calling Rossi’s engineer fat, you are being cowards. You would not do so to his face. He is likely much stronger than you. Lay off the personal insults, it reveals your bias and dampens the impact of anything you say that might be worth reading.

Rossi spent most of his time talking about the hotcat. I’m not going to give details here because until there is some evidence that it is real, I do not wish to propagate misinformation (should it turn out to be so). Full details are to be posted on Frank’s site over at e-CatWorld. I was interested to see that he put a strong caveat on the hotcat. Given that this was his first presentation to licensees as a collective, it was curious that he spent the time giving unverified details of a new product he says is too risky to invest in. I would have thought the audience might be more interested in hearing about what they had backed and not a blue-sky dream that might be viewed as a distraction from the tangible promises made to get them to invest in the first place.

I want to stress that I share many of the concerns the hardest of sceptics display here and elsewhere but deplore the scatter-gun insults that paints anyone in their anonymous sights as scammers, idiots, gullible, morons or any of the other descriptors from the bag of insults they wear slung at the ready. Not all sceptics behave this way (I try not to and others manage it, too. Thank you, all). Unfortunately, such poor behaviour is evident in some from the other camp and reading the resulting spat is unproductive, boring and leaves a nasty taste. Being right (in your own eyes) on an Internet forum is not worth the bile you are sending through your system or the damage you do to those who have done nothing to you.

Stop the mudslinging. If it means that this site dies, so be it.